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#26
Elyon
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a nu se intelege ca basescu e zeita ....

voiam sa stiu daca e ales la intamplare sau kiar e pe bune ce am auzit !

si cum trebuie mestecata o astfel de informatie ?


_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#27
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111
Stimabile,

Pe mine personal politica ma lasa rece, este aidoma peste tot si se bzeaza pe exact acelasi principiu enuntat de catre tine.
Inca odata itimentionez ca nu este totuna ceeace se petrece in romania cea "originala" si ce se petrece in alte obediente masonice.
In alta ordine de idei trebuie sa te obisnuiesti ca dupa o perioada de 42 de ani de dictatura comunista in care individualitatea umana a cam disparut era si normal sa se petreaca asemenea "aberatii".
Totodata un lider politic poate,cel mult, fi acuzat ca nu si-a format o echipa capabila sa rezolve problemele stringete adr in nici un caz nu trebuie sa astepti ca el sa rezolve problema personal.Personal nu am mai votat din 1994 cand am fost dezamagit de calitatea celor ce au preluat puterea la bucuesti.


 
   
#28
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111
Daca esti in cautare de simbolistica masonica, impreuna cu explicatiile de rigoare, fa o vizita la http://www.bradford.ac.uk/webofhiram/?

Fiat Lux.


 
   
#29
Elyon
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pai daca sunt simboluri secrete de ce sunt afisate pe internet ?

_______________________________________
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#30
Elyon
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gradul knight of the sun kiar imi pare interesant....

in cartea lui epperson soarele si steaua cazatoare sunt atribuite lui lucifer ...


_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#31
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

gradul knight of the sun kiar imi pare interesant....

in cartea lui epperson soarele si steaua cazatoare sunt atribuite lui lucifer ...




In cazul acesta Balada miorita este epopeea morti unui satanist sau a unui mason?
"Soarele si luna
Mi-au tinut cununa"
"Caci la nunta mea
A cazut o stea"
In alta ordine de idei Soarele si luna, care sunt si doua din elementele de simbolistica masonica, erau insemnele perii imperiului Roman de Rasarit pana la cucerirea otomana.

Sau si mai bine ce zici de poemul Luceafarul? luceafar=purtatorul, aducatorul luminii sau in latina luceferus => prin deformare Lucifer.
Daca nu stii de unde reiese aceasta vizteaza www.masonicinfo.com si te lamuresti.
Apropo esti cumva in stare sa-mi dai citatul biblic in care apare numele lui Lucifer?

Cat despre simboluri , ele nu sunt secrete. Numai parolele si semnele de recunoastere sunt.

Multumit?


 
   
#32
Elyon
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momentan nu sunt acasa si o sa iti dau si citatul ala !!!!

adika diseara

si nu , nu prea sunt multumit ....sa ajung acasa !


_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#33
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

momentan nu sunt acasa si o sa iti dau si citatul ala !!!!

adika diseara

si nu , nu prea sunt multumit ....sa ajung acasa !



Abea asyept sa citesc citatul. Nu uita sa mentioneazi  evanghelia citatul si paragraful.


 
   
#34
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111
Pana reusesti tu sa gasesti citatul m-am gandit sa te ajut un pic.
Citatul este de pe www.masonicinfo.com




"Masonry is not a religion.
He who makes of it a religious belief, falsifies and denaturalizes it."
Albert Pike (1809-1891); "Morals and Dogma (p. 161)

Few quotes in the history of mankind have attracted the attention of so many as the quote from Pike's Morals & Dogma which reads:

"Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!"
Three sentences (of which two are actually exclamations), taken from a book of 861 pages with a 216 page index. Does this seem a bit disingenuous right from the start?

Let's step back a bit before the more complete story. Some anti-Masons are also quite fond of quoting the book by John J. Robinson titled Born in Blood in which he supposedly ties heinous acts of the 13th Century Knights Templar with Freemasonry today. While this is a gross misinterpretation of Robinson's work, perhaps it would be good to look at another work of his titled A Pilgrim's Path. After all, if Robinson is to be used as an infallible authority regarding the Templars, we should then be able to similarly cite his other works as authoritative, right?  In A Pilgrim's Path we find an extraordinarily well-written explanation of the Pike quote regarding Lucifer.

Robinson writes:

Albert Pike and the Morning Star

"ALBERT PIKE (1809-91) was a lawyer, a poet, a prolific writer, a general in the army of the Confederate States of America, and a Freemason. He was a voracious reader, especially interested in the religions and philosophical systems of ancient cultures, which he saw as having shaped the thinking and codes of morality of people around the world. As a general, he commanded neither white nor black troops, but American Indians. He studied and respected their religious beliefs. But no matter how deeply he probed into other religions, nothing Pike learned ever shook his own faith as a devout Trinitarian Christian. Politically, he did not favor stronger central control, as is evidenced by his willingness to risk his life and fortune in a war that started not over the issue of slavery, but over the political concept of states' rights. In hindsight Pike may be judged to have been wrong politically, but at least he was willing to die for what he believed."

"Fundamentalist anti-Masons love to condemn all Freemasonry based on the writings and philosophy of Albert Pike. They never say that Pike's works were written only for the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite Masonry, which was the limit of Pike's Masonic authority. He was the Sovereign Grand Commander of that Masonic body from 1859 until his death in 1891." (Masonicinfo Note: The Scottish Rite is a separate and totally distinct organization having no control over Freemasonry!)

"The Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite in America covers thirty-five southern and western states. It has about half a million members, or about 20 percent of the total Masonic membership in the United States. That means that about 80 percent of American Masons have little or no knowledge of the work of General Pike. I have found that most Masons have not even heard of him. These men are mystified by attacks on Masonry that cite Pike's writings, since they have no idea what the antagonist is talking about."

"Pike's passion - perhaps obsession - was that all men should seek knowledge, or "light." From that light came information and understanding. Some fundamentalists, however, assert that all "light" comes from Jesus, and that any other source of light is anti-Christian, even though the rest of the world continues to use expressions like, "We've got to bring this to light," or, "Can anyone here shed some light on this matter?" That's what the Scripps-Howard newspaper chain had in mind when it adopted a lighthouse as its trademark, with the slogan, "Give the people light and they will find their way.""

""Light," in the sense that is used by Pike, means education. Education is one of those things that most of us think is universally approved, but the anti-Masons take Masonry to task for such emphasis on it, taking the stand that too much secular education can be damaging to a good Christian. They often fall back on the belief of their predecessor fundamentalists of generations ago, who believed that education requires no written work other than Holy Scripture."

"Yet that scripture itself admonishes Christians to seek knowledge, and totally supports the Masonic dedication to charity. Christian Masons can take comfort from the second epistle of Peter 1:5-7: "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity." A good summary of Masonic belief."

"Very few people are aware that in the lecture accompanying the second degree in the symbolic lodge all Masons are encouraged to continue their own education and to gain knowledge in the liberal arts, defined in the older context of that term as grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, music, astronomy, and geometry. The Masons emphasize the benefits of continuing education, even to the extent that many Masonic charities provide scholarships for deserving students on a nondenominational basis. Pike was in complete harmony with that approach, but he was somewhat different in that his own fascination was heavily weighted toward the history of religion, the subject of most of his writings."

"Pike was convinced that he had benefited greatly from his lifelong studies of other religions and philosophies, because what he had learned gave him a broader understanding of all humankind. Many of the ancient religions he had studied were gone from the earth, but he was convinced that they had made contributions to later thought and moral systems. He had a good point: There are those who would deny that Muhammad learned anything from the Jews and Christians he met on his trading missions, or that Moses learned anything while growing up at the Egyptian court, but reason indicates the opposite."

"Not everyone believes that familiarity with other religions and cultures is beneficial, however; exposure to alien ideas and customs may be thought to contaminate the student's religious and political beliefs. That's why the Catholic Church created the Index of books not to be read by Catholics, and why fundamentalists have sought the legal exclusion from classrooms and libraries of books that teach morality on a nonreligious basis, or even scientific knowledge that seems at odds with Scripture."

"In his conviction that wisdom would be gained by learning what others believed, and why they behaved as they did, Albert Pike poured his prodigious knowledge into written works, so that he could share that information. Today, universities offer master's and doctoral degrees in the comparative study of world religions and in the history of religion. Pike would have approved. His plan was to educate all Scottish Rite Masons in his Southern Jurisdiction by imparting that comparative knowledge as an essential aspect of Scottish Rite training."

"The course of education Pike laid out was in twenty-nine parts, to fit the Scottish Rite system of the 4th through the 32nd degrees. Rather than being taught in pedantic lectures, the information is imparted primarily in ceremonial dramas, which are usually more effective in helping the student to retain what he has learned. The major difference between the Pike-inspired course of instruction and that employed in some theological seminaries is that Scottish Rite does not identify any religion as the One True Faith. It teaches to inform, not to prove the error of all faiths except that of the lecturer. Some of the work does arrive at conclusions, such as those  condemning tyranny (from either a religious or secular source), and a charge to seek the light of knowledge, rather than yield to the ignorance that permits some men to dominate the unknowing. So Pike's primary lesson calls to mind the old IBM slogan that used to appear in every workplace: the simple advice, "THINK!" That very concept is offensive to many a fundamentalist evangelist, who will happily do all the thinking his followers will ever need."

"Some of the critics of Masonry cite the degree work, but more find their raw material for Masonic condemnation in Pike's writings, especially his ponderous Morals and Dogma, an 861-page volume that many Masons own, but few have read. It is not only tedious reading, but is full of Pike's own perceptions of Masonry. Many Masons will agree with some statements, but there are others that no Mason will ever believe. Pike was so wrapped up in his knowledge of ancient faiths and philosophic systems that he tended to make the background of Masonry far more complex and esoteric than it was ever meant to be. In some of his chapters, if the words "Mason" and "Masonry" were removed, it is reasonable to believe that many a Mason reading it would not recognize his own fraternity."

"Pike was a man with an extraordinary breadth of knowledge, and it is only natural that he wanted to share it all. Unfortunately, he had just one outlet that he could count on, and he appears to have wanted to find a place for everything he knew in the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite. The teachings of Masonry are simple and clear. Pike preferred them to be festooned with mystic interpretations and deep, arcane meanings."

"Make no mistake: Pike was a dynamic force in establishing a strong membership in his own jurisdiction, and a strong force in establishing degree work that has lasted for a hundred years. He was a towering figure in the history of American Masonry. What he was not was a Grand Master of any Grand Lodge, who alone is the final authority in basic Masonic practices and jurisprudence. He was never a spokesman for all of Freemasonry and never tried to assert himself as such. He was a strong man who never shrank from expressing his personal opinions, and it is important to remember that his pronouncements as they relate to Masonry are just that: his own opinions."

"That's why the most important part of Morals and Dogma may be its preface. Not written by Pike himself, the preface was, and is, the official statement of The Supreme Council, the governing body of Scottish Rite Masonry that published his work. It has been ratified by every succeeding Supreme Council, up to this very day. In part, it says (italics mine {i.e. those of author Robinson}):"

In preparing this work, the Grand Commander [Pike] has been about equally Author and Compiler; since he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers. Perhaps it would have been better and more acceptable if he had extracted more and written less.

"To remove any thought that the work contains religious dogma for Scottish Rite Masons, the preface says:"

The teachings of these readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those other domains of Thought and Truth. The ancient and accepted Scottish Rite uses the word "Dogma" in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term.

"And now the most important sentence in the preface (and, once again, the italics are mine {i.e., those of Robinson}):"

Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound.

"I was very relieved to find that statement at the beginning of Morals and Dogma, because there is much in it that I "reject and dissent from." Such a statement requires at least one example, and I offer the following quote from page 819:"


""The Blue Degrees [first, second and third] are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine that he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry (the 28th degree and beyond)."  I have asked enough Masons to convince myself that there is no Mason anywhere who agrees with that statement."

"His historical facts are usually correct, but that cannot always be said of his opinions. As an historian who has spent years researching the history of the crusading order of the Knights Templar, I was appalled to read Pike's words, "The Templars were unintelligent and therefore unsuccessful Jesuits," and "Their watchword was to become wealthy, in order to buy the world.""

"On the other hand, most Christians will agree with much of what Albert Pike has to say about his own faith in Christianity. His discussion of baptism calls the Christian rite "a baptism of repentance, for the remission of sins: that is, the necessity of repentance proven by reformation." That "reformation" of the repentant baptized Christian is now being referred to as being "born again," which puts Pike's definition of the sacrament right in line with the beliefs of those who condemn him most angrily. His critics, of course, never quote those points: Their aim is to extract comments about the many religions, sects, and cults described in Morals and Dogma, so that they can be cited, regardless of their original content, as "documentation" that Masons believe the teachings of those ancient cults, and must believe them. They know they are lying, but quoting out of context is too wonderful a tool to be abandoned."

"Nothing thrills the anti-Mason as much as Pike's references to Lucifer. Most Christians reading this will immediately recognize Lucifer as the fallen angel, as Satan, the ruler of hell. Why then, does Pike express his surprise in the words "Lucifer, the light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its intolerable light blinds feeble, sensual or selfish souls?" He is upset, referring at one point to "the false Lucifer of the legend." What false legend?"

"I set out to learn for myself, and what I learned may upset many Christians, who have to be told that the King James version of the Bible, which they revere as the literal, precise, correct work of God, is not always so. Some of the error in it was quite deliberate, including the biblical designation of Lucifer as Satan, along with the concordant story of a fallen angel. It is difficult to anticipate the reactions of some believers on being told that there are gross mistakes in the King James version, but, please, do not throw this book across the room in disgust until you have read a bit more."

"Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!""

"The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell? The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer.""

"Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, "bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King"."

"The scholars authorized by the militantly Catholic King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated from the Catholic Vulgate Bible produced largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and - ironically- the Prince of Darkness."

"So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.""

"And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say "Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God," while others with knowledge of the Latin and Hebrew texts say, "No, Lucifer is the classical Roman name for the morning star, and now Jesus is the morning star." This discussion can only anger certain fundamentalists. (I have at hand an evangelical tract from a Baptist church that says, "I believe in the Infallibility and Preservation of God's Word, of which the King James 1611 authorized version is the God-guided faithful translation.""

Spre deosebire, de traducerea in engleza a Bibliei, in varianta in limba romana, a Bibliei, nu apare aceasta traducere deformata.

Eu personal am cautat si pe http://www.razboiulnevazut.org/biblia/ si nu am gasit nimic la susmentionata denumire.


 
   
#35
Elyon
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isaia 14:12-14 Vechiul Testament:
cum ai cazut tu din ceruri ,stea stralucitoare , fiu al revarsatului zorilor ?.....

apocalipsa 12:9   - asta legat de sarpele = lucifer

motivul pt care masonii nu includ nordul in ritualurile lor se gaseste in isaia 12:13 , e adevarat ?

deuteronom 17 : 2,3,4 ,7....aici se specifica clar ca cel ce se inchina la soare , luna etc sa fie ucis.....

epistola a II-a a Sf Pavel catre corintieni : 11:14 :"si nu este de mirare. deoarece insusi Satana se preface in inger al luminii"



cat despre morala si dogma ...daca citez : "le-o puteti repeta gradelor 32,31 si 30 - religia masonica trebuie sa fie mentinuta , de catre noi toti , initiatii inaltelor grade , in puritatea doctrinei luciferice"....te prinzi la ce ma refer ??? sau scos din context citatul asta n-are sens.


_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#36
Elyon
Membru De Partid
Din: bucuresti
Postari: 157
isaia 14:12-14 Vechiul Testament:
cum ai cazut tu din ceruri ,stea stralucitoare , fiu al revarsatului zorilor ?.....

apocalipsa 12:9   - asta legat de sarpele = lucifer

motivul pt care masonii nu includ nordul in ritualurile lor se gaseste in isaia 12:13 , e adevarat ?

deuteronom 17 : 2,3,4 ,7....aici se specifica clar ca cel ce se inchina la soare , luna etc sa fie ucis.....

epistola a II-a a Sf Pavel catre corintieni : 11:14 :"si nu este de mirare. deoarece insusi Satana se preface in inger al luminii"



cat despre morala si dogma ...daca citez : "le-o puteti repeta gradelor 32,31 si 30 - religia masonica trebuie sa fie mentinuta , de catre noi toti , initiatii inaltelor grade , in puritatea doctrinei luciferice"....te prinzi la ce ma refer ??? sau scos din context citatul asta n-are sens.


_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#37
Elyon
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Postari: 157
imi cer scuze ca m-am repetat...doar ca nu-mi merge netu bine si am dat de mai multe ori click ...

_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#38
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

isaia 14:12-14 Vechiul Testament:
cum ai cazut tu din ceruri ,stea stralucitoare , fiu al revarsatului zorilor ?.....

apocalipsa 12:9   - asta legat de sarpele = lucifer

motivul pt care masonii nu includ nordul in ritualurile lor se gaseste in isaia 12:13 , e adevarat ?

deuteronom 17 : 2,3,4 ,7....aici se specifica clar ca cel ce se inchina la soare , luna etc sa fie ucis.....

epistola a II-a a Sf Pavel catre corintieni : 11:14 :"si nu este de mirare. deoarece insusi Satana se preface in inger al luminii"



cat despre morala si dogma ...daca citez : "le-o puteti repeta gradelor 32,31 si 30 - religia masonica trebuie sa fie mentinuta , de catre noi toti , initiatii inaltelor grade , in puritatea doctrinei luciferice"....te prinzi la ce ma refer ??? sau scos din context citatul asta n-are sens.


Sa le luam in ordine.

In Isaia nu exista nici o mentiune a numelui Lucifer , citeste pasajul si ai sa te convingi.
12. Cum ai căzut tu din ceruri, stea strălucitoare, fecior al dimineţii! Cum ai fost aruncat la pământ, tu, biruitor de neamuri!   
13. Tu care ziceai în cugetul tău: "Ridica-mă-voi în ceruri şi mai presus de stelele Dumnezeului celui puternic voi aşeza jilţul meu! ÃŽn muntele cel sfânt voi pune sălaşul meu, în fundurile laturei celei de miazănoapte.   
14. Sui-mă-voi deasupra norilor şi asemenea cu Cel Preaînalt voi fi".   
Vezi undeva numele de Lucifer? Citeste si postarea mea (in engleza).

Iara nu gasesc numele de Lucifer.
9. Şi a fost aruncat balaurul cel mare, şarpele de demult, care se cheamă diavol şi satana, cel ce înşeală pe toată lumea, aruncat a fost pe pământ şi îngerii lui au fost aruncaţi cu el.   

In Loja masonica nu exista nici un ofiter in latura de nord a templului. Ofiterii sunt situati in Est, Vest si Sud.

3. Şi se va duce şi se va apuca să slujească altor dumnezei şi se va închina acelora, sau soarelui, sau lunii, sau la toată oştirea cerească, ceea ce eu n-am poruncit;   
4. Şi ţi se va vesti şi vei auzi aceasta, să cercetezi bine şi de se va adeveri aceasta şi se va fi făcut urâciunea aceasta în Israel,   
5. Să scoţi pe bărbatul acela sau pe femeia aceea care au făcut răul acesta la porţile tale şi să-i ucizi cu pietre.   
6. Cel osândit la moarte să moară după spusele a doi sau trei martori; iar pe spusa unui singur martor să nu fie osândit nimeni la moarte.   
7. Mâna martorilor să se ridice asupra lui, ca să-l ucidă înaintea tuturor, şi apoi să se ridice mâna a tot poporul. Pierde deci răul din mijlocul tău.   
 

Citatul se referea la cei ce se inchina Soarelui si Lunii adica celor necredinciosi nu la cei ce folosesc SIMBOLUL  Soarelui si Lunii.
Ar fi de-a dreptul hilar pt asa cum am mentionat mai devreme Soarele a fost simbol al puterii Imperiului Bizantin , care era crestin si un alt exemplu este regalitatea Franceza , un alt bastion al crestinatatii.

In pasajul din Pavel e vorba de posibilitatea Satanei de a insela pe om.

12. Dar ceea ce fac, voi face şi în viitor, ca să tai pricina celor ce poftesc pricină, pentru a se afla ca şi noi în ceea ce se laudă.   
13. Pentru că unii ca aceştia sunt apostoli mincinoşi, lucrători vicleni, care iau chip de apostoli ai lui Hristos.   
14. Nu este de mirare, deoarece însuşi satana se preface în înger al luminii.   
15. Nu este deci lucru mare dacă şi slujitorii lui iau chip de slujitori ai dreptăţii, al căror sfârşit va fi după faptele lor.   
16. Iarăşi zic: Să nu mă socotească cineva că sunt fără minte, iar de nu primiţi-mă măcar ca pe un fără-de-minte, ca să mă laud şi eu puţin.   
17. Ceea ce grăiesc, nu după Domnul grăiesc, ci ca în neînţelepţie, în această stare de laudă.   
18. Deoarece mulţi se laudă după trup, mă voi lăuda şi eu.   

Cand scoti o fraza din context aceasta isi pierde valoarea reala.

Nu contest citatul este perfect real dar ca orice demonstratie pornita de pa o axioma falsa devine insasi falsa.
Tu nu mi-ai demonstrat existenta analogiei Satana-Lucifer eu, pe de alta parte , ti-am demonstrat nonexistenta ei.
Daca preferi sa crezi in fabulatia unui traducator exaltat e treaba ta. Eu prefer sa nu cred in ea. Citeste atent postarea mea in engleza.
Erare humanum est.


 
   
#39
Elyon
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Postari: 157
care ipoteza falsa domne ??

ce scriitor exaltat ? , normal ca fiind mason nu crezi ce zice unu anti....e logic normal ...

si am citit fragmentele alea din biblie de mai multe ori.....parca intre masoni nu trebuiau folosite cuvinte ....doar simboluri....


e mai klar decat foarte logic ca se refera la lucifer !!! ...daca s-a prins un profan ...si tu nu ??

incep sa ma indoiesc de niste treburi ........


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#40
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

care ipoteza falsa domne ??

ce scriitor exaltat ? , normal ca fiind mason nu crezi ce zice unu anti....e logic normal ...

si am citit fragmentele alea din biblie de mai multe ori.....parca intre masoni nu trebuiau folosite cuvinte ....doar simboluri....


e mai klar decat foarte logic ca se refera la lucifer !!! ...daca s-a prins un profan ...si tu nu ??

incep sa ma indoiesc de niste treburi ........


Si eu incep sa ma indoiesc de capacitatea ta intelectuala. Am senzatia ca totusi vorbesc cu un strut ce inghite informatii , care-i convin, pe nemestecate.
Spui ca este evident ca este vorba de Lucifer, atunci spune-mi cum de apare un nume de sorginte latina intr-o scriere ebraica.
Nu de alta, dar la vremea la care a fost scrisa Cartea lui Isaia, latina era poate o limba in faza de proiect .

Deja te aprinzi prea tare . Cred ca e manifestarea lipsei de alte argumente, faza in care deja spui eu asta cred si tu nu ai cum sa ma convingi.
Daca umanitatea ar fi fost pe acelasi arhetip cu tine am fi trait si acuma in pesteri.

So mote it be.


 
   
#41
Elyon
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mda .... imi pare bine ca gandesti asa ....ai ajuns sa ma cunosti dupa cateva replici sterile ...

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#42
Elyon
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daca taiem lucifer si zicem simplu satana....e mai bine...??

nu c-ar fi acelasi lucru ...intr-un final


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#43
Elyon
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cat despre argumente.... mie asa de lene sa stau sa caut cu exactitate fiecare fragment si informatie pe care am citit-o .... nici nu m-am ostenit sa scriu fragmentele din biblie... in schimb tu DA !

kiar ti neaparat sa convingi cititoriul [daca exista vreunul] de cele spuse de tine

eu m-am limitat la cei care sunt interesati si ar pune mana pe biblie sa se convinga singuri...

aici ai dat-o in bara domne !


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Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
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#44
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

daca taiem lucifer si zicem simplu satana....e mai bine...??

nu c-ar fi acelasi lucru ...intr-un final


Atunci cade toata argumentatia ta referitoare la Lucifer,

QED

PS Am sperat sa am cu tine un dialog constructiv, din pacate m-am inselat.


 
   
#45
Elyon
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Din: bucuresti
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la fel si aici ....

de fapt era normal sa combati tot ce zic ...eu fiind anti si tu pro ....

nu stiu la ce ma asteptam ....oricum nu conteaza....

eu am o vorba...

daca nu esti parte din solutie ...atunci nu fa parte din problema...


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Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
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#46
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

la fel si aici ....

de fapt era normal sa combati tot ce zic ...eu fiind anti si tu pro ....

nu stiu la ce ma asteptam ....oricum nu conteaza....

eu am o vorba...

daca nu esti parte din solutie ...atunci nu fa parte din problema...


Tu esti din pacate foarte departe de problema, atat de departe incat adevarul ajunge la tine nu numai deformat ci totalmente schimbat.


 
   
#47
Elyon
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Din: bucuresti
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yo zic sa mai citesti si ceva anti ....ca am impresia ca fratiorii tai iti ascund cam multe.... oi fi un ungherea mai mare...care se contrazice la tot pasul...

mai incearca sa schimbi si tu unghiul ...ca nu stii peste ce dai ...

hai ...succes !!


_______________________________________
Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
#48
francmason32
Membru De Partid
Postari: 111

Elyon a scris:

yo zic sa mai citesti si ceva anti ....ca am impresia ca fratiorii tai iti ascund cam multe.... oi fi un ungherea mai mare...care se contrazice la tot pasul...

mai incearca sa schimbi si tu unghiul ...ca nu stii peste ce dai ...

hai ...succes !!


Cand eu citeam "literatura" anti tu poate invatai sa scri. Di nefericire nu ai prea mult de citit, totul se bazeaza pe 2 concepte si pe fabulatii.


 
   
#49
Elyon
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si ungherea era ferm convins ca gradul 3 in masonerie e gradul maxim ....

suprize suprize....

ps: asta n-ai de unde sa stii....


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#50
Elyon
Membru De Partid
Din: bucuresti
Postari: 157
cat despre gradul 32.... nu cred ca ai gradul asta....adika bush si blair sunt 33 ...

dar cum yo nu stiu nici macar cum te cheama ...nu pot sa stiu ca nu esti macar consilierul lu bush...

am auzit o vorba mare azi: AMERICA : THE BEST DEMOCRACY MONEY CAN BUY !!!

si am gasit si niste informatii care explica multe

ce am eu ....am altele la ce sa ma gandesc....dar si asta face parte din strategia voastra...sa distrageti atentia oamenilor atat de mult incat sa nu-i mai intereseze de cine ii conduce si sa va lase sa va faceti jocurile in liniste ...

ei bine domne e o bufnita pe aicea care nu prea doarme noaptea si cand se plictiseste mai citeste cate ceva....poate sunt si superficial ....dar asta e problema mea si o voi rezolva cat de curand...

si inca ceva .....i'm wathcing you....


am si eu un oki atoatevazator...
si ti-am zis ca-l tin in varful cozii....strut auzi...ce nerusinare...


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Eu stiu . Ei cred ca eu nu stiu .
Dar eu stiu

 
   
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